Phobol Cheng's 1999 Talk at Laughlin, Nevada

From the video "The Reopening of the Billy Meier Case," Collector Series Vols. 2 & 3,
video-taped at the International UFO Congress in Laughlin, NV, on Feb. 23, 1999

Available from:
International UFO Congress, Inc., IUFOC
1515 W. University Dr., Suite 103
Tempe, AZ 85281
Phone: USA  (602) 889-3083


Transcription by Jim Deardorff, July, 2005

Notes: [italics]-- explanatory insertion
.... -- inaudible word or two
?? -- my best guess of a word


I'm very happy and very proud that I can introduce a lady to you which I reported in my magazine (Magazin 2000) and called the top eye witness in the [Meier] case. And I will tell you in a minute why. ... I was invited a couple of years ago to a lecture at the United Nations organized by Mohammed Ramadan, a tenured UN diplomat, ... And after my lecture a very friendly, nice little lady came to me and said, "Mr. Hesemann, you're from Germany, and do you know Billy Meier, and what do you think about him?" And I said, "Do I know him? I think he is for real." And she said "Thank you." And then she told me one of the most incredible stories I ever heard in my life. And the interesting thing about this lady is that not only is she one of the warmest, most spiritual and wonderful human beings I ever met in my life, and this is a very honest declaration ..., but she also comes from a political high society of her country of Cambodia.

She is, she was -- she's retired -- she was a member of the Cambodian delegation to the United Nations. She spoke several times to the General Assembly of the United Nations about human rights and other questions. So she was a high ranking diplomat. Her family consists of advisers to the king; her grandfather was [the highest ranking monk], appointed by the king in Cambodia. Her grandfather has a very fascinating life indeed. He is 111 years old right now [in 1999]. And he looked -- and there are pictures of him -- he looked younger when he was 80, and he looks younger now at 111 years, than he looked when he was 60 or 70 and just became a Buddhist monk. After being the first Sap(??) in her country in Cambodia, this man decided to become a Buddhist monk. And he decided to live a spiritual life, and he founded the Ashoka Mission, named after the greatest king of India -- the king who introduced Buddhism to India, and under whose Buddhism India had the peak of its culture. It was about at the time of Alexander the Great. And he [the grandfather] founded the Buddhist mission in Delhi. He was a person who had a very close friendship with Mahatma Gandhi. He is such a highly respected Buddhist teacher that he is on the same level as, let me say, the Dalai Lama. But this is a different way of Buddhism. You have Mahayana Buddhism, you have Hinayana Buddhism, you have different schools and it's a different school -- the more authentic schools. Because the Tibetan Buddhism is influenced highly by the Bon religion -- the Tibetan -- northern Tibetan -- demonic cult, and so on and so far. So this is the purest teachings of Buddha ........... and her grandfather is an authentic representative. And he by himself is 111 years old and is still a teacher of Buddhism and still a monk [now] living actually in your country [the U.S.]. He's a very fine example of the power of his teachings.

When Billy Meier was a young man -- I already told you -- he was traveling around the planet, by hitchhiking, by foot, by car, by whatever. He did dozens/billions of different jobs, from taste tester to bodyguard, from driver to veterinarian, and he managed to come to India when he learned about this famous teacher. And he went to his Ashram and became his disciple, because he wanted to learn the authentic Buddhist teachings. And this is where he had [alien] contacts. And just everyone in the Ashram saw the craft. And ..... including this lady, saw Billy and Asket, a lady from the Dal Universe -- not from the Pleiades but from the Dal Universe -- who walked and talked [together] for hours.

So, we have an early case of contact, which you find nothing about in any of the books that... and Wendelle Stevens published, because this was not the focus of their investigations. [Stevens does devote several pages to it in his 1989 book and subsequent books.] The focus of their investigations was the Semjase contacts, page 3(??) as I call it, in Switzerland from 1975 on. But the story you might have in mind starts in January of 1975 when this farmer went out and saw a spaceship landing and so on. But this is how it all started, ...when he was a little boy of 5 years of age or something like this -- 5 years of age. And he had contacts through all his life. He was ...... Semjase contacts, and since they got physical and expensive enough(??) for this team to go to Switzerland and do the primary investigations, they didn't go to India too because they didn't know -- nobody knew -- before, actually, originally Wendelle relocated our primary witness. And I announce that as soon as it is possible .... that he will go to India and interview several witnesses of this "new" contact case when it was an open contact.....When it wasn't a [covert] contact, people could witness. At the very same time, Timothy Good, the famous English UFO investigator -- the most respected British UFO investigator, was in India playing for the London Symphonic Orchestra and Billy. Then he read in a [Delhi] newspaper about Billy Meier. And this is how Lou Zinsstag.... of Jung, the great psychoanalyst and convert of Sigmund Freud, and learned about it, and she informed -- as Wendelle said before-- she informed Wendelle about the case. So this is where it all began, in India.

So we go back to the 1960s. We go back to the golden age when it was possible to travel in Middle Eastern countries where today unscrupulous dictators rule. And we go back to a time when indeed an open contact happened in 1964 -- the year in which I was born -- in 1964 in India. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to a lady who confessed to me that it was no problem for her to talk in front of the General Assembly of the United Nations, but today she is a little bit nervous because this is deeply, deeply personal not only because you are the more important audience, but also because what she will talk about now is deeply, deeply personal; it has to do with her life and her past. And after her we will listen to another very amazing witness of this .... contact. ...

Welcome -- welcome to Laughlin, Phobol Cheng.


Thank you. Thank you very much. As he said, it is more difficult for me tonight to dwell into my childhood and my past and share something very personal and very intimate. More difficult than standing in front of the United Nations General Assembly for 14 years, defending my country. Not because you have not been a great audience, as this is one of the most fabulous audiences I have been a part of. It's just my own feelings, because we are not brought up to open our hearts to strangers so much, such as delving into our past and talking about ourselves. So, I'm going to do just that tonight.

Maybe I'll give you a little background on myself so you'll have some idea. I was born in Cambodia, in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. And my father is still alive and lives in the United States also, with me. He was an advisor to the king, and also a member of the Cambodian Cabinet. When I was about 8 years old, my father was sent on a diplomatic mission to India. So our whole family moved to New Delhi, India with him, and I and my brother were sent to a school there to study. This will explain how a person from Cambodia ended up in India in a temple that was built by my grandfather in India -- to give you a little background.

So after a year, when my father's diplomatic mission came to an end, they moved back to Cambodia, but decided to leave myself and my brother in school under the guardianship of my grandfather. At that time my grandfather had just founded the Ashoka Vihara, or the Ashoka ashram, as it is now popularly known. He is a Buddhist monk, as you know, This monastery is about an hour and a half from the main center of New Delhi -- an outskirt of New Delhi, and it is a very large temple with six buildings in the compound.

I give you a background of the temple so you'll have an idea of the place and how the ship [Asket's UFO craft] appears and so on. As I said, there were six big buildings in the area of about, I think, 30 acres, all surrounded by high stone walls. There were a lot of, hundreds of, fruit trees -- I don't have a picture to show you but I will give you an idea of the area I grew up in when I was a child. (I think we can have the pictures -- the first picture...)

So from eight years old onward, my brother, who was about six years old, [and I] grew up in this temple under the guardianship of my grandfather. (Slide of Phobol, her brother and their grandfather V.B. Dharmawara, and her English tutor. Dharmawara died in June of 1999.)

Because my parents were not able to be with us they kind of kept us surrounded with a lot of caretakers; like I had an English nanny who taught me English, and I had a Cambodian nurse, and a few of the Indian ayahs to help us, surrounded by all these kind-of-like parents to us. And they [her parents] would visit us maybe once a year or so from Cambodia, but in the meantime these women and my grandfather took care of us.

[Discussion of the slide:] I just wanted to introduce the audience to myself, my brother, my grandfather -- at that time I was about nine years old -- and my English tutor. In the background is the tree -- it's called the bodhi tree, or the people's tree. This tree's lineage came out of the tree that the Buddha became enlightened under. The seedling came from there. The reason I wanted to also bring your attention to this tree is because whenever a ship appeared in front of our temple or our area this tree would become illuminated. Each of the leaves would become quite iridescent, or like a peacock feather, all different colors. So one could see that; and I was not the only one to see that. There were many people who lived on the area and ashram saw that. Now the ashram was about 30 acres, as I said, with youth hostels, animal shelter, the main buildings of the temple, and the five buildings for resident monks, for visitors who come, and for students of my grandfather who came from Europe, the United States, and other Asian countries to study with him. So I had all these people coming in and out of the area, of the ashram. So of course one of those persons, who visited the temple, was this person. Now of course, we all know, at least I know, popularly, everyone also knows -- his name is Eduard Meier. At that time, of course, he was called Billy Meier -- Billy.

Of all the hundreds of people who passed through our place, why [did] I take notice of him, because we never had any conversation? The way I was brought up was not to talk to any strangers, especially males. So I just observed people, and one of the persons that I observed coming in and out through my grandfather's room, through the temple area in the evening or to take classes or lessons from my grandfather, was this person. He has a very unusual eye. I remember when I was nine years old when I first noticed him, out of all the people he had these strange eyes that were so penetrating when he looked at you or when he looked at me, that it goes right to your inner core. This is what stayed in my mind in that time. And also it makes you sense that there's some truth; I don't know why it's like that, but that's what I thought at that time. So I would follow, watch him when he comes to my grandfather's place. But I'm sorry, I'm jumping ahead of the story, because I have to go back to ask how it came about that I took notice of this person.

I used to have, when I was 8 years old, my first notice of visitation. In the evening, late in the evening, when I finish my studies of my tutor, and go to bed -- my brother and I share a room -- and I would put us to bed and they would leave. I would have this lady who just appeared in the room and would come to me, and then I would fall asleep. The first time it happened I didn't understand what it was, but it felt so wonderful I felt I was perfectly at home and was with my parents, although my mother was in Cambodia. But I felt very comfortable -- very, very at home, very comforted, and peaceful, and fell asleep. A while later the same thing happened, but this time she would come and pat my head; she would sit at the edge of my bed, put my head on her lap, and, I could say, sing me to sleep, but she didn't sing. She didn't use -- there were no words, it wasn't a tone even, it's not a humming. There was some high pitched tone that was so beautiful to my ear that I would right away fall asleep. It goes on for a little while like that. And I would ask my brother, who was 6 years old at that time, and he said "Yes, he remembered," but he didn't see any being coming to him and [but?] he would sense the presence. So after a while I would kind of look forward to her coming.

I didn't know who it was; I didn't know it was anybody. All I thought was: [how] wonderful, it made me so at home. I didn't know that it was Asket -- there was no name -- but I know it was a real living being, because my head was on her lap. It was as real as [when] my head would be on my mother's lap. This went on for quite some time. And then once or twice, it was not right away I would fall asleep, but once she would sit at the edge of my bed and then ... some sort of understanding of messages, and I would just sit there and kind of absorb everything. I didn't ... there was no conversation, but there was conversation going on, as I now know that there must be some kind of a transferring. Because I understood everything. She told me something that later on I would have more understanding [of], in the later part of my life. So stuff like that. And the next day [when] I would wake up I would feel, you know, like I understood everything -- as how the world came about, how people are the way they are, how this person is happy or sad, -- I would know that. But that was all I went(??) through, because that's why I spent so much [time] in my growing-up years at that time observing so much, so many people. And that's why I observed people coming in visiting my grandfather, staying as our guest, and so on, and that's how I noticed this one person who was something different. He was totally different. And that is when -- OK, back to -- I do not want to jump ahead.

So, one time I was observing people coming in and out of my grandfather's temple. Suddenly I saw this being now we call Billy, and he was accompanied by the being that used to come and sing me to sleep. So then I know for sure there was no doubt in my mind that he's also a friend. It was -- suddenly I see somebody who has been close to me for all these times walking with somebody who I had always noticed that there was something different about him, together walking. And at the same time that I noticed and became aware of them walking together, I found that they also knew that I was aware. So, both of them turned and looked at me, and then continued on in their conversation and so on. And that was -- she would come to meet Billy Meier at the ashram many, many times, and they would walk around, looking at areas, looking at the temple, and discuss the teaching. Because Billy at the time was, I think, still under the spiritual instruction of Asket, which is how I came to encounter [them].

[On] one of the few contacts, one time, she came to my room and I kind of -- it was not a question -- I asked her, .... my understanding I transferred to her, saying that: "This being, he's working and staying with us. I find that he's OK", or something like that. I don't exactly recall, but I know that it was like telling her, or something, how I felt about him. And she said, "Yes, and maybe there will be more contacts later. That will be in your life, ...there will be some meeting at some point." And that was it. I do not [did not] ...keep that in my memory, so to say. And by the same token that she had transferred this understanding to me, I also understood that he then could become my friend, because she had kind of okayed it. I was only 9 or 10.

(Can we have the second slide?) I want to show you how he looked when he came to the temple of my grandfather and studied the Buddha's teachings from my grandfather. At one point he also studied some auto-meditation. This is how he was, working in our compound. He had two monkeys. Those two on the left. One he named Emperor Hanuman, and the other one he name Empress Hanuman. The reason I knew this is because my brother -- you have seen the little boy -- was so fascinated with the monkey that he would run after Billy and play with the monkey. And then he asked his name. And that was why I remembered the name because he told [me] the name. I remember that -- one thing I noticed was that some time [when] he had food, or bananas, he would feed the monkey first. And then if he had something left, he would eat it himself. So that impressed me a little bit, too. So also, as you noticed, this is the only picture around that we see him when he still has both arms -- before his accident in Turkey in the middle 60's or later part of the 60's.

The being we now know as Asket -- how she appeared to me at the time: She has nice long, dark hair. She does not look Caucasian nor Asian, almost a blend of the two. I cannot describe to you how, but definitely not a Western or Caucasian look. She does not look Asian; it's almost a blend of the two. She has a very nice golden kind of skin, very luminous and very beautiful to look at. She has long dark hair. That is one thing, because later on when I came to know about Billy's story, I was shown a picture of Asket. It's a being looking very thin and with long blond hair. So I asked, "It must not be Asket, the being that interacted with Billy, because the Asket that I met did not have blond hair." So this puzzles me, and I ask a few people; but now I'm sure you understand, at least now, the photo you have been seeing of Asket all along was not [of] her. It was a hoax, I was told, ... it was an exchanged [photo]. (Question from audience...). Yes, that was also the question I asked Billy when I met him. But one thing is true, though, she does have a long ear lobe. She does have a long -- very different from our -- kind of ear lobe.

This is another thing I always like to make a joke on. She is not very big. She is not very tall, only 5'1". So, I feel quite comforted [Phobol is also short].

So as all these years went by, [involving] the encounter with Asket and encounter with Billy Meier at my grandfather's place -- he came when he was still seeking, and before his accident that caused him to lose the arm -- he came to the ashram and stayed there for a while. Later on, when [after] he lost his left arm, he passed through our place and stayed there for a very short while. And the reason I know this was because the gardener of our place [Mr. Suraj] had interacted with Billy quite a bit. He made a comment to me that this is the person that was here before, and now he's back again but he lost an arm.

I have to backtrack a little again to say that when Billy stayed at our place, and sighted the ship on the ashram, and walked around with Asket, there was other people also that saw the ship. And most of all, our head gardener -- the area used to be -- we have a lot of gardens, we have a lot of trees, so people that take care of the land -- there were six gardeners that take care of the land and one head gardener, and he's the one that comes back and forth to report what's happening around the area. One time Billy was walking around the ashram, and the head gardener came and encountered him and Asket. And the head gardener came and talked to my grandfather and I, and said, "Oh, he's the same being who has always said he has been in love with the goddess, who came from heaven." You have to understand in India, with the gardeners, who are Indians, anything that is out of this world has to do with gods and goddesses.

So here you have this person, who stays at our ashram, and sees ships and takes photos, and sometimes people ask, "What is that?" and he would be sharing his stories, and they wouldn't understand what... [if] the situation was coming from God and the universe and so on -- they wouldn't understand. They would always take him as telling a story of him having contacts with goddesses, from other universe or from heaven. So this is what the head gardener would call him: the person who is in love with the goddess from heaven. So when he returned to the ashram in the late 70's [60's] on his way back to Europe, he came with one arm, and that is when I noticed, because he said that the beings came back again, but this time I lost an arm. But I said, "Who was that?" -- The same beings that..... the goddess from heaven. So I didn't.....that he mentioned it. He mentioned it -- Billy Meier.

I hope I don't jump all over the place in telling my story, but this is my first sharing of the experience for you. (Can I have another picture of...?)

[End of Tape 2 of 3 of "The Reopening of the Billy Meier Case," Collector Series Vol. 263-2]
[Start of Tape 3 of "the Reopening of the Billy Meier Case," Collector Series Vol. 263-3]

(Slide shows Phobol with her grandfather) This is a later time -- this is just a year later -- after Billy Meier passed through the mission; and that is my grandfather when he was in his late eighties, and myself just a year and a half before I left the country [to go to] the United States to go through my university studies. The background [shows] a little bit of how the ashram looked all over the place.

After that contact, when I was around 14, there was no more contact -- the lady didn't visit me any more. And I just continued a normal life that a teenager would grow into. I finished my high school and then was sent to the United States to study [as] an undergraduate in New York. As I continued my university studies, I had forgotten all about that contact. It never stayed in a place in my mind where it is utilized. I had a life of a person who was a newly arrival of the United States, newly [a] college student. [With] a new life in front of me, I could not have spent much time dwelling on what took place in my childhood. And so I continued studying, and even when at the time I finished my undergraduate and continued on to my graduate study, some people would come to me and talk about UFOs and all, and I would say, "Ha, I don't believe in those -- I've never seen any of them."

So, eventually, almost 5 years ago -- 5 or 6 years ago, I think it was 5 years ago [12 years ago perhaps?] -- somebody handed me Gary Kinder's [1987] book, called "Light Years." So I looked at it and saw the pictures of UFOs, and I thought, "This is not my thing." I left it on the shelf and never touched it again [for some years]. And then, on finishing my graduate work, I went to help my country, became a diplomat, was sent back to New York to defend my country at the United Nations, worked at it for 12 years, and suddenly one day I was cleaning and came across the book again.

So I thought before I throw it away I should look at it. I opened [to] a page and saw the name Ashoka Ashram in one of those pages. So I was wondering, how could our place be named in this book? I said "Oh well"(??) to it and saw the stories. And, immediately I said, "I bet you it is the same Swiss person that stayed at our place when I was a child." So I thought, "But how would I find out if this is the right person?" I called up the official textbook, but nobody could find him. Finally, some kind person said, "You should contact this person who has published in other books, called "Message from [the] Pleiades," and his name is Wendelle [Stevens]. So I contacted [him] -- through some miracle, I don't know how, I found his number -- I contacted Wendelle and told him, "Do you think this is the right person who came to stay at my grandfather's place so many years ago, is this the same being?" And so on, "And I would like to get in touch with him. Is he still alive?" And Wendelle suggested he's still alive but he doesn't meet anyone, he's isolated. So many people came up to me and said, "I knew him before, I don't think he would want to meet you, because" and so on. So I said, "Well, if this is the right person, can you tell me, at Ashoka he has a monkey, and he has the name of the monkey. If he's the person that I knew, if he has the monkey, it's the same person. So Wendelle wrote to him, and I think Wendelle said, within an hour [after receiving the letter] Billy wrote back and said, "There's those two children, and ... ." And so a few months later I flew out to meet Billy at the Center [Semjase Silver Star Center in Hinterschmidrüti]. I had only a few -- I had only about 5 days there, but we sat and talked for three straight nights without sleep. It was almost like I felt I had returned home and he felt he has returned home! It was just a sharing of some part of him that he has not been able to share so much with other people before. And so that is how I reconnect with Billy.

And now I have talked so much I would like to show you some of the pictures that I brought back. (Slides, please.... Slide of Asket's UFO hovering above the ashram) That's a picture of the ashram. The stone walls come up to here, and these are all trees from the..... So this ship would appear at the time -- usually would be around at the same time I had a visitation, or sometime no visitation -- but I would see the ship. (In response to a question: This [photo] was taken by Billy Meier, and [the ship] was present even when I first met [him]. .... not every day, but almost -- I would see it once a week, or sometimes twice a week; there was no timing [to it].

Can I have the next, please? ) This is the .... I think. This is the ship over the Ashoka Ashram but from an angle behind the Ashoka Ashram. There's a little hill, and on top of -- next to that hill -- we have an area where we make a shelter for animals -- a kind of an animal shelter for stray animals ...and so on, taking care of animals. And we used to call it "Dark Hill," ... . So this [photo] was shot from the Dark Hill. And Billy spent a lot of time working at the animal shelter. Helping to cure [ailing] animals and also feeding stray animals, mostly dogs, monkeys, cows sometimes and horses. This was taken on May 24, 1964 at 1:53 pm [the precise time comes from Billy's record made at the time].

(Next one), [shows two bright, fuzzy orbs at night.] Yes. This was taken [when the ship was] quite far away, way up high, just on the side towards the east of the ashram. This two slide's(??) ball of fire, which sometimes I would see more than two of them -- a whole bunch of them. ...

This [slide showing three distinct bright lights in the sky] is taken from a monument in that area -- it's called ......, this is an old Indian historical monument, it's taken near that area. (Answering a question from audience: This is Billy Meier, who took these photos.) And this is a very rare photo. He didn't show these photos a lot because this is a part of that contact when he had his accident. And so when I went to visit him and he showed me all these pictures because he was.......from which angle and so on. Unless you had been there you would[not] know where and in what reference to the Ashoka Ashram.

(Next one, please.) OK, this is a very interesting, and also important to me, [slide]. This is a whole bunch of them [white blobs in the sky] around on top of the Ashoka. This is the background of the place. You cannot see very clearly of the reproduction here. But this is one of my ayas washing my clothes sitting in the veranda outside of my room. She's washing here (pointing with laser pointer) my school uniform. On the original photos it's much more clear. So we shared these stories because we had interacted with her quite a bit -- the washing lady. For me it's very important, because when I had my experience it was not something.. -- for me it was very natural and have seen [to have seen?] a lot of ships over the temple or over the -- we have a large area -- over the trees, near the well, over the house. All these areas that have seen the ship sometimes it was very low. I could see a huge -- almost like -- one time I saw a, maybe, half a bassoon(??) size of the ship. And sometime I see [it] very small, further away. It was nothing strange; it was not something that caused me to run to the ... to ask some adult or my grandfather or my ayah or my governess what I see. It was a very natural phenomenon for me. So when I had experiences with Asket, it was also not something [of] a very unusual experience for me. It was almost -- it's the most natural -- it was almost like a returning to some known familiar state.

(Could we have the next one, please? -- [slide shows large area of bright light]) ....(Question from audience) Yeah. I think one of the balls descends down, and that's what produces UFO phenomena.

(Next, please.) Yes, this is an amazing one. [Slide shows a huge bright white blob against night sky.] This phenomena, when it shows up like this, is usually followed by an apparent -- another disk and ..... shape, the classical shape. It flew in and about the clouds overhead of people. Sometimes there would be a few villagers walking around, and they would look up and see this. In the ashram itself sometimes our servant would come and said, "I saw something very strange. Have you seen [something]?" I would say "Yes." That was the end of it. There was nothing further to be said.

(Next one, please? [Slide shows dark disk-shaped craft with large white cumulus cloud in background.]) This is right on top of the ashram, in the evening. I remember this very well, because sometimes there will be people looking up with me, looking up, and some of them will see the ship very clearly, like myself, but some would look around, said, "I don't see it. I don't know where this is." And it's not a very small spot; it's a big spot. But some would not be able to see it. I don't know whether, you know, living in India, the villagers around may not have good eyesight. I don't know, I used to think that way. But now I think it might be some other problem.

(Next one.) [Slide shows similar scene, except displaying just the dark circular underside of the craft overhead.]

(Next one, please.) [Slide shows a roughly circular array of 8 lights in the night sky.] I think this is one of the phenomena where hundreds of people saw this. This one I think had been witnessed by a whole -- I think maybe a hundred people, even.... in the Indian newspaper in the sixties. Actually, one reporter was dispatched from the newspaper -- the New Statesman or something; if you look you could find the article [the Delhi New Statesman of Sept. 30, 1964] -- he came, talked to ... some of the people who worked at our place and even talked to Billy, and was shown the photos. And he wrote an article about it. And interviewed a lot of other people... .

(Next please.) That's Billy and his family. That's Billy [on the left], and of course the boy in the red shirt is Methusalem, and this is....., and the baby... (Methusalem comes up to the podium and, using the laser pointer, tells Phobol,) "This is my father, this is my mother, this is my brother Atlantis, my sister [in red] Gilgamesha, and that [the baby] is me." (That's all the slides.) Thank you. I would like to go back to the picture, and tell a little story before I sum up. (The picture of the temple)

This is the inner part of the temple. This picture shows my grandfather sitting in front of the altar of the temple. There's a lot of ... visitors. This area I want to show you, because one evening when I had finished my lessons with my tutor, I came in and saw my grandfather sitting right there with two beings. And for some unknown reason, I do not know why I knew right away that these beings were not from here -- were not the beings that come from the Earth. But they do not look any different. They were two males, all in some kind of white gowns. Kind of a darkish complexion, very very beautiful but very thin, talking to my grandfather. And I quietly went in and sat near to them and listened to their conversation. I did not see anything much, but I understood. At least, what I got from that conversation between my grandfather and the two beings was that they were very grateful to my grandfather for having taught the spiritual teachings of the Buddha. Also, teaching meditation. This is what I got, that they were very grateful that we are meditation, and that we have many, many secrets that I don't begin to study in the form of meditation that he was teaching us at that time. And that's how -- I was sitting there and listening, and suddenly I turn around, and they were no more. They were there one minute, and they were not there the next minute. So afterward, I ran over to my grandfather and asked him, where were they? And he said, "Yes, this is how they come, and this is how they leave." And I was quite satisfied with that answer. I have no reason to have any more doubts, or to not understand what he meant. And that was the same spot that we saw him sitting with the visitor.

I have put all these together to share with you, much as it is kind of... for me; it is a little difficult. You might think it's not that hard to share something, but it is hard for me, because it's very, very personal, as I said again, and its very -- it's very deep. So, four years ago, close to five years now, I reconnected again with Billy; after that letter I went to visit him, and as I shared with you that we....three nights talking without sleep, and sharing so much. And throughout those conversations there are other memories that open up, and I kind of shared with Billy and he confirmed it. And he told me that he had always thought of the two little children [Phobol and her little brother] and what happened to them. He also shared that he was always told that we would also reconnect some time in the future. And so I still feel a closeness with him ever since we reconnect. Last year November I ?? [was] invited ?? [to Billy's place to spend] two weeks with my husband -- to introduce my husband to him, and to ?? on as a -- almost like a family to me. But this closeness I cannot describe, whether it's friends or family or what, but at least something more, maybe something less, but there is a closeness of the being-ness of all that we are here. Thank you. (Final applause)

Thank you very much. I've forgotten -- I have one more thing to share with you. I have a friend in India; she [Sashi Raj] was with me when I was growing up in India. She... I found her when she came to visit the United States, so I brought her to share with you briefly. [Sashi Raj gives the next presentation; she testifies to having known Phobol at the Ashoka Ashram, and to have witnessed one of the UFO events there.]

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